I think the Queen wasn’t entirely averse to the end of the war, but I doubt she helped Silver engineer it. She had a lot to consider – an entire people – and I think she understood that for their sake, the treaty was probably the best option. I doubt she’d have so severely undercut her own daughter, though – family is visibly very important to both her and Madi and I think she handled the situation she was given rather than having an active hand in creating it.
Tag: meta
Do you think Flint killed Thomas’ mother? I do not think is true, first of all the actress is too young and then in the credits she is listed as a young mistress.I always thought she was the mistress of Alfred Hamilton.What do you think?
Yeah – the credits list her as the mistress, so I tend to go with Thomas’ mother either having been safely back at home or dead when Flint killed Alfred. Not that that makes it any better, but at least Thomas might have had one parent that wasn’t completely awful.
I always felt like Thomas’ mother was likely dead because you never heard mention of her. Not from Miranda or Thomas or anyone. When Abigail talks about the story her father told of Captain Flint killing Alfred Hamilton, there is still no mention of her. If the woman with Alfred had been his wife you’d think it would have been mentioned that Flint killed Alfred and his wife. That would’ve added to the “monster” England was branding him. Perhaps she could have been Thomas step-mother, happy to see him “disappeared” in hopes of having her own child with Alfred to inherit everything.
You: “James McGraw is the enemy.”
Me, an Intellectual: James McGraw Flint is, beyond a shadow of a doubt, a morally estranged character. He is a man of grand ambitions, fueled by the trauma of losing his lover to the greatest empire of the western world, and he repeatedly uses violence, dishonesty, and cruelty as a means to achieve his goals. But Black Sails is described as a “novelistic” television program precisely because it forces the audience to engage with the narrative of the monster- akin to the work of great novels, Flint’s story speaks to the experience of being othered by a militant empire that discriminates, exploits, and destroys the marginalized identities within its reach- women, black and African folk, queer and disabled people. Furthermore, the narrative does not flatly condemn Flint for his flaws. Certainly, like Teach, Vane, Eleanor and any other character who upsets the moral system of the Black Sails universe, Flint is a character who is doomed to meet the consequence of his misdeeds. But the narrative still regards him with profound sympathy, almost chiefly because Captain Flint would not exist had the violent systems of homophobia and militarized masculinity that crucified James McGraw existed first- the tragedy of James Flint lies not only in his battles with madness and grief, but in his lost potential as a good man. The titular “battle with the world” of Black Sails speaks to Flint’s own experiences of invalidation within English society and his further rebirth and destruction in the margins of society, i.e. Nassau and the sea.The James McGraw revealed in season two speaks to the life he could have led as a good English citiszen and soldier- honored, financially stable and socially celebrated, but emotionally inauthentic to his true identity as a gay man. True to Eleanor Guthrie’s own battle with patriarchy, Flint tries to assimilate to a culture that hates him for the sake of survival and, when he attempts to do so, this very system destroys him, Miranda, and Thomas Hamilton all the same. In a show that is built on the graves of so many victims to systematic prejudice and violence, Flint is as much a subject of victimhood and tragedy as those whom he has lost despite or, perhaps, precisely because he is no longer a good man. By consequence, there is something innately admirable in Flint’s audacious determination to desecrate the world that destroyed him. His is the power fantasy that any marginalized identity can understand- not feasible, not easily imaginable, but emotionally accessible all the same. Ultimately, the beauty of his role as the central protagonist and a rich, dimensional character (for, certainly, there is a difference between a good person and a great character in any text) is rooted in the duplicity of his identity- will our protagonist end as James McGraw or as Captain Flint? What is gained and, more importantly, what is lost when one is consumed by the other? And, in a show so fixated on the importance of narrative, how will his story be told and remembered by those who survive him? Just as one cannot understand Shelley’s aims in Frankenstein if they do not at some point anguish for Victor’s monster, if one cannot engage with Flint in sympathy, we have automatically forfeited an understanding of the fundamental aims of this show.
@flintsredhair replied to your chat : Admiral Hennessey: My concern with you is that…
Actually I’d argue that it was less about his career than it was about Queen and country. I have massive headcanon about this guy, but still – yeah, a little cowardly, and definitely not at all fatherly.
Let’s hear it then! 😀 I’ve never given any particular thought about this particular charachter so far (beyond the basic: oh THERE HE IS, the dick who betrayed our Sad Naval Ginger MuffinTM)
Oooh, happily! See, I got to thinking and talking with Shirogiku one day and, well…
I can’t hate the character now. I thought about him too much. I’ve tried it on for size and nope. Alfred Hamilton’s a dick, but I think Hennessey’s just a poor bastard stuck in a bad spot without any way to be a father but to try and get James out of the country while he still could.
I’m really, REALLY tired of hatred against Eleanor. I have enough. No one is trying to understand her. Are there fans still objective about her ?
But that’s just it – I do understand Eleanor. I do get why she does the things she does. I understand her logic and reasoning, her history, what drives her. And I still don’t like her. The more I understood her, the less I liked her, TBH.
Also I think the fans are intelligent enough to recognize that you can appreciate a well written, well acted character without actually liking Eleanor as a person.
This is so true.
I don’t hate her, and I do think I understand her actions, but honestly I don’t like her in the third season at all. Loved her in the first two though. (Don’t think I’ve said that on here before). I think Hannah New does a good job; mostly I think the writing for her character in season 3 is what bothers me.
Hannah New does a great job with the character. I wanted to like Eleanor but she just wouldn’t let me. LOL! It’s like she’d win five points with me and then lose ten. There’s ambition which is cool but then there’s “screw everyone and anyone to get what I want” which isn’t cool.
“Screw everyone and anyone to get what I want” is a theme with a lot of characters on the show, but most of the others get a bit of heart thrown in (Or what they want ends up benefiting enough others that they aren’t quite so reprehensible.) Eleanor’s had some good moments but maybe not enough to emotionally connect?
That’s true. LOL! But understanding the other characters helped to soften their edges for me. Like Flint. In season 1, I thought he was cold-blooded and power hungry, out to rule his pirate kingdom with an iron fist. But understanding his past really humanized him. In an instant, he becomes a tragic figure who has done it all for love. That makes me root for him. Max – she is trying to rise above the crap hand she’s been dealt in life and to answer to no one but herself. Vane – he wants to live free. He’s a very straight forward character. All things people can relate to. But Eleanor has just been “I want power and I will destroy anyone, even those I care about, to get it”. That dehumanizes her (to me) and makes it hard for me to care about her.
I’ve always kind of felt that we might be underestimating just how badly traumatized Eleanor was by her mother’s death. I think the Rosario Raid (and the possibility of a repeat) scares her more than possibly anything else, and that, coupled with her anger and grief over her father’s death, kind of makes her more understandable, at least for me, in Season 3. She’s not just after power, or at least not for its own sake. She’s always wanted legitimacy, so that she can make Nassau a safe place to live, free of that threat. Part of it is proving her father wrong/proving that she’s every bit as good as the son he wanted, sure, but a big part of it is her trying to make sure that what happened to her mother never happens to her, and since Rogers seems to be the only guarantee of that at this point, she’s willing to play nice and to try to shore up his rule.
what do we actually know about her mother’s death? the pirates attacked their ship, but when was it? I’m trying to make sense of when Peter became the Governor of the Carolinas and am Confused.
What if the woman traveling with Alfred Hamilton was Ashe’s wife? Traveling aboard the same ship because they were headed the same way? What does the show actually say about Alfred’s death? Does it even mention the poor woman he was with? I mean – if that was the case – holy shit no wonder Ashe hated Flint so much. Wasn’t the Maria Aleyne headed for the Carolinas?
One gets used to a state of affairs for such a long time, it’s easy to forget that they’re all just transitions. Specks of dust suspended in the air until a strong enough gust comes along and rearranges everything. A strong gust has come to this place. The men can feel it. Know it will upset everything they thought they understood just a few days ago. They’ll need to lean on something solid…They’ll look to me for that.
#this scene fucking kills me#because Flint is hurting here#he’s hurting so bad#but he’s got Silver#and then the lie#and suddenly he’s really truly alone#and he knows it#that’s why I’m firmly in the he knew camp when it comes to Silver’s lies#because you can see the mask crack when he says I’m having a hard time#he’s not ok but he’s pretending so hard for Silver’s sake#and then Silver lies to him and he loses his give a fuck entirely because why the fuck should he try for someone who’s only going to lie?#black sails
I really like this one meta that’s Camp Nope, but I also have a good 4th wall breaking excuse to cop out of picking a camp. As of s3, to me, Nope makes more sense in terms of their relationship progression – Nope makes the shark hunting reveal really great and exciting IMHO. BUT I get the feeling that they haven’t written it yet as of s2, so maybe they were considering another angle, and that’s why the s2 scene is played as He Knows.
I can see the argument for either, tbh, but the way that I read it is that Silver makes progress in that boat alright, but not because of the reason that he thinks he does. He’s misreading Flint here still. He thinks he’s forcing Flint to account for him as someone as intelligent as he is, when in fact he’s finally stopped bullshitting him and gotten his respect back because he’s stopped lying to him. I read Flint as being so very tired of lies in Season 3. He’s been lied to by just about everyone, and he’s sick to death of it, so when Silver lies at the end of Season 2, it causes complete and utter shut down. It’s less about, “you’re not smart enough for me to trust you/talk to you as an equal” and more, “stop fucking lying I can’t take any more lies.” He’s tired of being manipulated, plain and simple.
oh, I like this take!
but lol Flint, you hypocrite XD he himself lies to everyone and uses manipulation whenever he needs to. Ok, it’s not the same, bc he didn’t lie to Miranda (or ever try to manipulate her), bc she was the one who was that high in the status, but he lied to Silver/manipulated Silver all through s1/2.
but he still says in my head, you’re not welcome. so it’s like he has no energy to steer Silver along but Silver is still doing the old lie/manipulate dance. and yes, flint doesn’t want any more of it now.
Exactly. It goes neatly with the, “I’m not sure I have any lies left within me,” from later in the season. He’s done. So done, so tired, at that point where any kind of bullshit feels like a betrayal, because let’s face it, that’s exactly what just got Miranda killed – Peter Ashe’s lies, and I think he’s mentally lumping Silver in the same category with Ashe until he tells him the damn truth for a change.