I’m going to respond to this ask under the assumption that you do really want a “middle way” and aren’t looking to add fuel to the fire, anon. So here’s what I have to say:
I think it’s really, really disingenuous to pretend that this is about some kind of ship war, and I think it’s highly problematic to claim that someone that I’m “unfairly misinterpreting” a character as a way to silence me.
What middle way would you like exactly, anon? Would you like to have an actual discussion about John Silver’s choices and motivations, based on the text of the canon? Because I’m under the impression that that’s the discussion I’ve been having. I haven’t been coming to other people’s posts to yell about how much he sucks. I’ve been looking at the text of the canon to interpret his decisions and provide my perspectives on them. If that’s a misinterpretation, in your opinion, then you can go to the post and provide a counterargument, or evidence to the contrary, and have an actual discussion. But coming to my ask, claiming I’m misinterpreting the character, and then painting the whole thing as a ship war is, again, disingenuous. And I’m going to say this: there is a really, really harmful tendency in fandom lately to confuse discussion with hate and wank. I am interested in having a discussion about the canon, and my dislike of Silver is based on my interpretation of his actions in the canon. I tag that dislike so you can avoid it, even though I personally think it’s a valid interpretation of the canon. But I’ve been told that I should just shut up and not say anything about him. I’ve been told to stay out of the main tag when I am, again, trying to have a discussion about this goddamn show. And frankly, I’m starting to get pissed off, because certain people seem to think that any critique of their fave character, even based on canon, is somehow hate and wank and a personal attack. It’s really, really not. I’m not the one going around calling people purity fetish morons, or gremlins, or making replies to their posts that say nothing more than “this post is ridiculous” or “this is so dumb” or harassing people who have explicitly or calling them ableist. (and yes, all of those things have happened to me)
In fact, the fact that you think I belong to a particular “side” over which I have some kind of influence is really telling. Sure, I ship certain things and not others, and I have opinions on certain characters that I share with friends in the fandom, but, again, you’re the one who’s putting this in terms of sides, and more than that, sides based on ships. I’m personally frustrated that instead of actually looking at the goddamn text, people seem to be justifying a certain character’s choices based on their own ship preferences.
And, lastly, and just out of curiosity, have you also sent this message to people who hate on, say, Thomas Hamilton? Cause there’s plenty of hate for him as well. Because I happen to know you sent this to at least two people who have been critical of John Silver’s choices, and it would be really disingenuous if you didn’t do the same to the other so-called “side.”
Tag: fandom wank
apparently i gotta do this because wow really?
amongst all this tag policing and other “we own this fandom” bullshit, i’m seeing people publicly refer to anti-Silver fans as morons, stupid, and lacking critical thinking skills etc etc the list of degrading insults go on and on
if there’s anyone trying to reduce the complexity of the show, it’s definitely not us, and it would be fucking splendid if you could stop insulting people who see things different than you (or perhaps… just taking the source material as is instead of twisting it into something it’s not, but what do i know). so Silver made a difficult choice for the sake of the people he loved; guess who else did that? Peter Ashe. he went ahead and betrayed his best friend because Abigail (and presumably his wife) would’ve suffered if he didn’t. and to him, this was considered “the least awful outcome”– one that would at least keep Thomas, James, and Miranda alive. that’s how he conceptualized it in his own mind. that’s how he excused his own actions. and surprise! Silver is doing the exact same thing. and, just like Alfred Hamilton, Silver came to his decision independently, without consulting anyone, and he acted to end the war permanently, quietly, and in a manner of his choosing. for all the parallels that the show keeps referencing, it’s ironic that you lot refuse to acknowledge this one, the one that continuously shows up within the show. it makes me wonder which one of us is actually failing to see the complex nature of what we’ve been shown?
You know, it’s fine to be critical of a character and their actions. It’s fine to prefer your ship over other ships. You know what’s NOT fine? Spreading ship hate and talking smack that breaks the DON’T LIKE DON’T READ rule. No one fucking owes you the fics you personally want to read. And I’m really sick of this bullshit popping up on my dash. So if you know who you are, sincerely go fuck yourselves.
You know,I can understand a lot-like people hating on other ships.We are not 12 and we are allowed to not like ships and characters and it’s all good.I don’t get why waste time or energy like that,but oh well…..One thing I’ll never understand tho is criticising fanfiction choices-writing or reading. Be a fucking adult and manage your fic intake-don’t like certain pairing? Don’t like that people write it for whatever reason? SKIP IT. Don’t like reading it? SKIP IT FASTER.Guess what?IT’S FANFICTION. And people will always write and read about that one popular pairing you dislike and insert characters you can’t stand and guess what? /You/ don’t have to read it.You don’t even have to look at the thing! It is not written for you. And writers are not here to cater to your needs, they are writing what they like. Criticising someone’s fanfiction choices is ridiculous,people and I can’t believe has to be explained.
This is good and important and should be noted but by the same token – if a fic has a certain pairing in it, then that needs to be tagged. No one can manage their fic intake if they’re not aware that they’re clicking on something that they’re not going to like in the first place, and they have a right to be less than thrilled when that happens. Tagging responsibly is just as important as reading responsibly. Similarly, people have a right to criticize certain ships on their own blogs as long as they’re not going onto other people’s blogs/fics and inserting criticism where none was asked for.
Okay, perhaps you have a very specific incident in mind where there was insufficient tagging – and that’s fair. People should know what they’re getting into. God forbid I’d hate to stumble into surprise!vagina on my quest for gay porn.
But I’m gonna have to disagree with you that it’s okay to post ship hate on your own blog. I mean, yeah, free speech, blah blah blah, but polite people talk shit in private ;). When you post something on your blog or reblog someone else’s ship hate on your blog, it is with the understanding that other people will see it and possibly share it. That’s how Tumblr works. And in that case, people are free to unfollow or block or whatever, but I’d much rather coexist in peace with everyone because I’m a multishipper and so are many of my followers and quite frankly the shipping hate has gotten just a BIT MUCH lately and creates a very toxic environment in a public space. And I’m sorry but it’s just fucking unnecessary! So maybe create a Whatsapp group where fellow haters can hate on that thing that they all hate in glorious shit-talking privacy, and the rest of us can ship and let fucking ship.
Can I get an Amen?
Again, I think this falls under “tag that shit,” because if someone’s talking on their own blog and they’ve used whatever tag they use for that particular subject, then people can blacklist that tag and continue on about their day in peace, although I will concede that there’s a distinct danger of it being shared and not tagged because some people have no manners. I just don’t think people should ever be forbidden to discuss something on their own blog provided they have it tagged adequately and provided they’re not being racist/homophobic/etc, because otherwise that’s how we get people feeling isolated in their feelings and quite frankly feeling a bit bullied and leaving the fandom altogether. How the heck is anyone supposed to find people to bitch with if they don’t know those people exist in the first place because everyone’s silent on the subject? Also, there’s a difference between criticizing a ship and ship hate. One of these is saying hey, I find this pairing more than a little troublesome, and the other is saying “everyone who ships this ship is Problematic and horrible.” I’m not advocating the latter because you’re right – that’s gross and hurts people.
You know, it’s fine to be critical of a character and their actions. It’s fine to prefer your ship over other ships. You know what’s NOT fine? Spreading ship hate and talking smack that breaks the DON’T LIKE DON’T READ rule. No one fucking owes you the fics you personally want to read. And I’m really sick of this bullshit popping up on my dash. So if you know who you are, sincerely go fuck yourselves.
You know,I can understand a lot-like people hating on other ships.We are not 12 and we are allowed to not like ships and characters and it’s all good.I don’t get why waste time or energy like that,but oh well…..One thing I’ll never understand tho is criticising fanfiction choices-writing or reading. Be a fucking adult and manage your fic intake-don’t like certain pairing? Don’t like that people write it for whatever reason? SKIP IT. Don’t like reading it? SKIP IT FASTER.Guess what?IT’S FANFICTION. And people will always write and read about that one popular pairing you dislike and insert characters you can’t stand and guess what? /You/ don’t have to read it.You don’t even have to look at the thing! It is not written for you. And writers are not here to cater to your needs, they are writing what they like. Criticising someone’s fanfiction choices is ridiculous,people and I can’t believe has to be explained.
This is good and important and should be noted but by the same token – if a fic has a certain pairing in it, then that needs to be tagged. No one can manage their fic intake if they’re not aware that they’re clicking on something that they’re not going to like in the first place, and they have a right to be less than thrilled when that happens. Tagging responsibly is just as important as reading responsibly. Similarly, people have a right to criticize certain ships on their own blogs as long as they’re not going onto other people’s blogs/fics and inserting criticism where none was asked for.
I know you’re all fucking deceased at this point and probably have no idea what to believe but I’m just gonna say it because I know a lot of people are feeling the same
Even if they brought Thomas back it doesnt make it ok for them to just make silverflint platonic. Not after 4 seasons of relationship development and build up, not to mention the amount of paralells we’ve been given with them and other canon romantic couples. Toby saying that Silver is the love of Flint’s life without them being canon and flinthamilton being endgame just doesn’t add up
The only way I can see any of this making sense would be if they were to make Silver and Flint’s feelings for each other canon, and the tragedy of it all in the end being James choosing Thomas and John choosing Madi
“It is some kind of hell to be forced to choose one irreplaceable thing over another”
I definitely agree that using possibly!living!Thomas to invalidate the Silverflint would be a shite move. But I think at this point Silverflint IS canon. Does Silver have sexual feelings for Flint? We don’t know, we don’t know if he’s wired that way. Does he LOVE Flint? TOO-FUCKING-RIGHT he does.Their feelings for each other are absolutely canon.
Now, I want to see Silver pound that freckled ginger ass into the bed as much as the next gal, plus like, queer representation and shit, but if we say that Silver – who is looking at his partner and first/only friend, and basically saying “I want to save you from this war by giving you the thing you love most in this world” – does not, purely and irrevocably love Flint simply because he may or may not want to smooch the man is really selling such a wonderfully written character short.
Maybe we need to stop thinking “platonic” and start thinking “agape”?
Agape works and I said pretty much the same yesterday about Silver saving Flint from war and giving him his lost love back. To me silverflint is canon,has been for a very long time because it doesn’t matter if any kissing happens onscreen-the deep connection they share,the relationship they have built,the love…it’s all real and there. Tho I do think Flint IS in love with Silver, but expects nothing but friendship in return and he is fine with that.
Meg's Mumbles 