Alright so I have seen the post you are referencing – obviously its creator is perfectly able to create whatever gifsets they want, however this argument is one that I disagree with, and I’m going to take this chance to explain why. I do think that you have missed the point of that gifset – which appears to be ‘Max says the plantation is a good place’ = ‘the plantation is a good place’ = ‘the prisoners in the plantation are not slaves’.
The first point you have addressed, and I agree with you that if Max does indeed think that it is a good place – and later in this post i’m going to discuss why i think there is some doubt about whether she thinks that or not – then it does not necessarily follow that it is in fact a good place. As you say, Max and Anne have never been there. And even if the men there were not deliberately mistreated, sugar plantations of that period were notoriously dangerous places for the men who worked in them. Furthermore, the guards at the plantation all appear to carry cudgels – hardly something one would expect from a ‘good place’. Then there’s Oglethorpe’s horrible speech from the beginning of 4×10:
Here, they must cease to be.
You can argue that for James this could be considered a mercy – I might even agree with you – but what about Thomas? What about the rest of the men at the plantation?
Now to the point of Max thinking it was a ‘good place’ – did she though? I would argue that she saw it as an acceptable alternative to death for a man she did not like, and was not close to. A man she viewed as one of her ‘enemies’. Furthermore, back in s3 she said:
The things it took to make that room possible, they were awful things.
In my view, it’s more than likely that she viewed sending Silver to the plantation as one of these ‘awful things’. I also think it’s quite telling that she describes sending him to the plantation as:
A return to civility
Especially given that that is almost word for word how Peter Ashe describes himself sending Thomas to the plantation:
A hard choice, made under great duress, but with the intent to achieve the least awful outcome. You wish to return to civilisation, that is what civilisation is.
Another interesting parallel is in Max describing the men at Oglethorpe’s plantation as ‘labourers’ – the exact same euphemism that Madam Guthrie’s man uses in 4×07 when speaking about slaves.
Finally, to the point about Max not viewing the plantation in the same way as she does slavery – I must admit, I don’t quite understand this line of argument. Yes, Max tells Madam Guthrie that she refuses to own slaves, but throughout the show she demonstrates a willingness to work with people who do own slaves. Eleanor, Jack, Mr Underhill, even Madam Guthrie herself. Just because Max considers the plantation an acceptable place to send Silver (and, one assumes, James) does not mean that the prisoners on Oglethorpe’s plantation are not slaves?
So far, the only argument that I’ve seen against it is that the men there don’t appear to be treated badly, but the show itself goes out of its way to remind us that however they are treated, a slave is still a slave? From Charles Vane’s speech in 3×01 to Madi reminding Eleanor Guthrie in 4×06 that her father had always mistrusted her despite Eleanor saying to him in 1×07:
You know I’ve never seen you that way [as a slave].
There is no such thing as benevolent slavery. The men at Oglethorpe’s plantation may have been ‘convicts he solicits from prisons in England, where their treatment is far less humane’, but that does not change the fact that he essentially bought them, transported them across the ocean, and forced them to work on his sugar plantation for no wages, and with no prospect of release. It doesn’t matter that Max was willing to send people there. It doesn’t matter that Oglethorpe claims to treat them well. Just as it didn’t matter that Eleanor trusted and relied on Mr Scott.
Sadly, girls’ trauma is more likely to be missed than that of boys. In children younger than about 11, boys tend to act out and behave badly if they are unhappy – so their trauma is noticed and (hopefully) addressed.Girls tend to react by becoming “people pleasers”. It’s as if they see trauma as a punishment, and hope that they can avoid it by being “good”. They will talk less, work harder, always be springing up ready to help anyone with anything at the slightest indication they may want it. They watch the emotional states of adults like a hawk and soothe, placate and offer practical help at the slightest sign of anger or displeasure. As this is the kind of behavior encouraged in girls, no one takes any notice until it’s too late.
I know exactly what you mean, Anon, but somehow I’m not certain that the place would have made much of a difference. The fact is that the debate over whether rebellions and revolutions should have taken place happens pretty much anywhere there is a revolution, and it is fueled by the simple fact that to people who have never been oppressed, the idea of armed revolution seems like an extreme reaction. People who have never faced death or torture for being who they are do not understand that there comes a point at which words are not enough, and a lot of people who HAVE faced oppression of that sort have families to consider whom they are rightly concerned for, because to them, a failed rebellion means death. I can see what you’re saying – in India, rebellion against the British empire worked eventually thus proving that such an endeavor was a possibility and no one today doubts whether change was possible, whereas in the Americas, we still very much have slavery at an institutional level in the form of the American prison system. It seems like an impossible pursuit, thus, I think, fueling at least part of the debate about “could Flint and Madi’s war have worked.” Still – I’m fairly certain we’d be having this debate over any historical piece, especially about India, since India as a country didn’t gain their independence until after WWII.
do you ever feel victimized by fanfic authors when you make them fanart and then they give YOU compliments and you try to give THEM compliments and its a vicious cycle??? ♥♥ ft. @nicolareed
still can’t believe fucking peter had the audacity to hold the murder of alfred dickface hamilton over james and miranda while being perfectly aware of what he himself did to them both and thomas actual angel hamilton.
Calico Jack adopts every stray kitten he sees. It started with just a calico kitten in Harbor Island because haha it’s funny, it’s a calico kitten and he’s Calico Jack.
But then he started feeding strays and now he just has this small army of cats at each port he docks in who hang out in one particular alley that he goes and feeds every day every time he’s in that port.
I see this a lot, no one has actual names, or any reference for names, that are legit Native American, varying among the tribes, for their characters.
Babynames.com and shit like that will give you names made up by white people.
However, I’ve got your solution.
Native-Languages is a good website to turn to for knowledge on a lot of native things, including native names. If you’re unsure about the names you’ve picked, they even have a list of made up names here!
Please don’t trust names like babynames.com for native names, they’re made up and often quite offensive to the cultures themselves.
Meg's Mumbles 